Legislature(1995 - 1996)
01/24/1996 03:12 PM House L&C
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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HOUSE LABOR AND COMMERCE STANDING COMMITTEE
January 24, 1996
3:12 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Pete Kott, Chairman
Representative Norman Rokeberg, Vice Chairman
Representative Beverly Masek
Representative Jerry Sanders
Representative Brian Porter
Representative Kim Elton
Representative Gene Kubina
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 311
"An Act repealing the limitation on the hours a person may be
employed in a mine; and making a related technical amendment to
avoid changing the penalties for failing to make payments into an
employee benefit fund."
- HEARD AND HELD
HOUSE BILL NO. 319
"An Act relating to the regulation of small loan and retail
installment transactions."
- SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 311
SHORT TITLE: REPEAL LIMIT ON HOURS EMPLOYED IN MINES
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) VEZEY, Toohey, Martin
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
04/18/95 1351 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
04/18/95 1351 (H) LABOR & COMMERCE, JUDICIARY
01/24/96 (H) L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 96-3, SIDE A
Number 001
The House Labor and Commerce Standing Committee was called to order
by Chairman Pete Kott at 3:12 p.m. Members present at the call to
order were Representatives Elton, Sanders, Rokeberg and Kott.
CHAIRMAN PETE KOTT announced there were two items on the calendar,
HB 319 and HB 311. He said before the committee addresses those
bills, at the close of the last Labor and Commerce meeting, the
committee discussed the impact of the Governor's regulations on the
vocational schools in Alaska. A subcommittee was appointed to
specifically look at the development of a resolution asking the
Governor to hold the regulations in abeyance.
REPRESENTATIVE JERRY SANDERS said based on comments, letters and
conversations, the subcommittee has developed a resolution for the
committee to review. One of his primary guides comes in the sixth
"Whereas" clause where it states, "The Commission on Postsecondary
Education has no authority to conduct credit checks of any kind on
potential borrowers." He said he believes this is a license to
steal. Representative Sanders said he believes the resolution is
appropriate and asked the committee members to give it their
consideration.
CHAIRMAN KOTT explained the resolution is a result of the testimony
the committee heard on January 17. He said the resolution is on
the table for comments. The resolution will be introduced as a
House Labor and Commerce resolution.
Number 230
Representative Porter arrived at 3:15 p.m.
Several of the committee members stated they didn't have the
resolution before them. A three minute recess was called by
Chairman Kott at 3:15.
Representatives Masek arrived at 3:17 p.m.
CHAIRMAN KOTT called the meeting back to order at 3:18 p.m. He
noted the committee would review the draft resolution and then have
it put in final after the committee has reviewed it.
REPRESENTATIVE KIM ELTON asked what the new name of the commission
is and when the executive order takes effect.
REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS said he believes it takes effect in 60 days.
REPRESENTATIVE ELTON said he appreciates the sixth "Whereas" clause
as long as the assumption isn't that they should begin credit
checks. He stated he is concerned that a student that is applying,
who is just out of high school, doesn't have a credit history.
Sometimes the implication of a credit check is that if you have no
credit history, your not eligible for the loan.
REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS explained that is not the intent of
including the clause in the resolution.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT suggested that after the word "credit," include
"/reference checks".
REPRESENTATIVE ELTON said he is comfortable hearing Representative
Sanders say that is not the intent. He noted he wants to make sure
that the committee members understand that is not the intent.
Number 452
REPRESENTATIVE NORMAN ROKEBERG informed the committee he had a
private meeting with Diane Barrans from the Postsecondary Education
Commission. She questioned the statistics in the second "Whereas"
clause. He said he doesn't think the inclusion of those statistics
affects the resolution. He said he doesn't think the inclusion of
the statistics will have an impact one way or another. He said he
believes it would be better to delete the second "Whereas" unless
the committee wants to restate it by indicating that the default
rates are way over what they should be.
CHAIRMAN KOTT said he doesn't have a problem in deleting the
clause.
REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS said he doesn't have a problem with deleting
the clause if it is the wish of the committee. He said he would
like to point out that the clause only affects one of the
divisions.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked if the resolution is asking the
commission to rescind their action. REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS said
the resolution asks them to rescind action in the implementation of
20 AAC 15.925.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said the committee had discussion about
corrective statutory action.
REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS said not statutory. There was discussion to
rescind the actions that have already been taken and to direct the
commissioner to work and consult with all affected parties to
effect a satisfactory solution to all the issues arising from the
student loan default rates. They have made an offer to do
everything they possibly can to cooperate. Representative Sanders
said the public would be better served in coming to an agreement on
this rather than cutting out a certain number of schools.
Number 698
CHAIRMAN KOTT said the committee did discuss holding those
regulations in abeyance. He noted he isn't sure they identified a
time specific date, but could certainly do that in the resolution.
He said they are somewhat in a dilemma because there are statutes
and, for whatever reason, now that those regulations are out on the
street, the committee is asking the Governor to rescind them to a
time uncertain.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG suggested including wording in the
resolution saying, "The concept that any new regulations not be
retroactive in terms of accounting." He said that is one of the
compromise solutions that has been discussed. They shouldn't count
backwards, they should count forward.
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN PORTER said what the committee wants to say is
not to rescind the regulations but to rescind the implementation of
the regulations. He referred to the "Therefore" clause and read,
"affected parties to effect a satisfactory resolution of all issues
arising out of student loan default rates" and suggested adding,
"and to craft a more equitable regulation."
Number 879
REPRESENTATIVE ELTON said he would go even further. The problem he
has isn't the time frame, it is the fact that it is a done
regulation in the way in which they are going to do it. If they
want to get where their going, they are not giving an opportunity
for the schools to move in that direction because of the way they
implement 150 percent. Representative Elton suggested the
committee just say to rescind it and revisit the issue. He
referred to the second "Whereas" clause and said it should be kept
in the resolution and should also be boosted. One thing that
bothers him is if we have a problem with a private school with
excessive bad debt in the student loan program and there is a
problem with a public university with excessive bad debt, the
problems are equal. He noted one of the problems he has with the
regulation is it only treats half the symptom. Representative
Elton referred to the "Therefore" clause and said he doesn't think
there is a commissioner of Postsecondary Education. The board
members may be called commissioners so they may want to add an "s"
to commission or change the word to "commission."
REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS asked if there is a director.
REPRESENTATIVE ELTON said the executive director reports to the
commission. He said what bothers him about the regulation is it
seems unfair to say, "We're gonna fix your problem but we're going
to ignore the problems elsewhere." He said he believes he has
heard 18 percent of the universities who have students that
participate in the program have a loan default rate that is in
excess of 150. He said he doesn't want the implication to be that
they are only interested in part of the problem.
REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS said it depends on whether your counting
dollars or people. If your counting people, then it's larger in
the private sector. If your counting dollars, it's larger in the
university sector.
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER asked if the Governor can direct or request
the commission to do things. REPRESENTATIVE ELTON said they serve
at his pleasure.
REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS said "request" is probably appropriate.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked if the regulations are currently in
effect.
CHAIRMAN KOTT said he believes they are in effect. He said the
second "Whereas" clause will be left in place as it does point out
the differences.
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER referred to the "Therefore" clause and said
they should change the word "direct" to "request" on the second and
fifth lines. Also on the fifth line, change "commissioner" to
"commission."
CHAIRMAN KOTT asked if there was any discussion on rescinding the
regulations altogether.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said they could do that by deleting "its
actions on implementing," in the "Therefore" clause on the third
line after the word "rescind."
CHAIRMAN KOTT said it will then read, "Therefore, be it resolved
that the legislature requests the Governor of the state of Alaska
to request the Commission on Postsecondary Education to take action
to rescind," and strike "its action on implementing." After
"Default Rates." insert "craft more equitable regulation".
Number 1211
REPRESENTATIVE ELTON suggested that maybe they don't have to pass
the resolve because the Postsecondary Education Commission acted on
legislative intent that didn't pass anyway. Maybe introducing this
resolve is going to accomplish what is needed.
CHAIRMAN KOTT noted that the resolution was not noticed in the
committee schedule so there wouldn't be a motion. He said it is a
curtesy call for the committee members to have input. He noted
Representatives Sanders, Masek and Kubina promulgated the
resolution and as soon as the drafters can put the resolution in
its final format, it will be introduced as a House resolution by
the House Labor and Commerce Committee.
HB 311 - REPEAL LIMIT ON HOURS EMPLOYED IN MINES
Number 1282
CHAIRMAN KOTT announced the committee would hear HB 311. He
pointed out the measure is sponsored by Representative Vezey.
Chairman Kott said it is his intent to allow for opening remarks by
Representative Vezey. There will be no testimony. He said there
are a couple issues that are being worked on. The bill will be
back before the committee within two weeks at which point it will
be moved to the Judiciary Committee.
REPRESENTATIVE AL VEZEY, sponsor of HB 311, "An Act repealing the
limitation on the hours a person may be employed in a mine; and
making a related technical amendment to avoid changing the
penalties for failing to make payments into an employee benefit
fund," addressed the bill. He explained what is being addressed is
the statute deals with a law that limits the number of hours in a
24-hour period that a person can work in an underground mine. This
law was one of the first laws passed by the Territory of Alaska
when it formed the Territorial Legislature in 1913. It was carried
over into the ACLA in 1949. Representative Vezey noted he wasn't
sure what ACLA stands for but something like the Alaska Code of
Legislative Acts. It was also carried into Alaska statutes at the
time of statehood.
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY explained in 1913 when the bill was passed,
mining was a very big industry and a very hazardous occupation. We
didn't have wage and hour laws which currently exist. We didn't
have the occupational safety and health standards that currently
exist. The equipment, by today's standards, was primitive in terms
of it being adapted to workmen and whatnot. The environment was
extremely hazardous. Representative Vezey said it is unbelievable
how bad it can be to work in a confined space. You can't imagine
what it's like to be working with air driven tools in a space that
does not have adequate ventilation. At that time, it was a
nationally recognized problem that serious health problems existed.
A disease called "silicosis" existed which is similar to black
lung. It is a very serious debilitating injury.
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY explained in 1913, the state passed this law
which had two effects. One was safety, in that the people were not
exposed to the workplace environment as long as they were. He said
10-hour days was the industry standard, in Alaska, at that time.
It also had the affect of giving a pay raise. They didn't have
wage and hour laws in 1913. People were paid by the day. He noted
in the committee member's folders there is a copy of a report
titled, "Report of the Territorial Mine Inspector to the Governor
of Alaska for the Year 1917." The report discusses the daily wage
rates, etc. He noted that after the 8-hour day went into effect in
1913, the state adopted a general 8-hour day in 1917, because the
idea of the 8-hour day was getting popular. The mining industry
went through a unbelievable number of adaptations in almost a
century as this happened almost that long ago.
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY explained today, we have gotten to a point
where government agencies are even encouraging companies to go to
longer shifts and to give the employees flexibility in their hours
so that they can work more hours in a day and have longer weekends
at home. It is very interesting to note that if you look at the
ten leading mining states in the nation, only two have a number of
restrictions on the number of hours that personnel can work
underground. One is Alaska, which has an 8-hour law. The other is
California which also has an 8-hour law except you can, by permit,
receive an exemption for a 12-hour day. Colorado also has a permit
system where you can work more than eight hours a day but there are
no limits to the number of hours that you can get a permit for.
You just have to get the permit approved. Representative Vezey
referred to the other seven leading mining states not having any
sort of restrictions on the number of hours that can be worked
underground.
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY said in 1992, the U.S. Department of the
Interior, under Secretary Bruce Babbitt, did a study that compared
8-hour shifts and underground mines to 12-hour shifts in
underground mines. The conclusion was that the 12-hour shift was
not a safety hazard and it did contribute to the quality of the job
as perceived by the employees. About 97 percent actually preferred
it.
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY referred to the safety aspect and explained
the mining industry in Alaska has a measured accident rate of 1.9.
That is down from two a year or two ago. That means there are two
loss time accidents for every 100 man years of employment. He
noted 200,000 man hours are classified as a man year. This is
among the lowest of any industry in Alaska and is way below the
industry standards for the U.S. By comparison in Alaska, the
construction industry in total has a loss time accident rate of
5.6. So mining is nearly three times as safe as is the
construction industry as a whole. Representative Vezey said
studies have determined that there are two most important aspects
of on the job safety. One is the continuity of employment.
Employees who are on the job on a steady basis are much less likely
to have an accident than employees that come and go. The other
factor is overall worker satisfaction with their job. That has a
very measurable significant impact on overall job safety. He noted
those things seem to go hand in hand with working longer shifts and
having longer weekends so the workers have more time with their
families.
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY said the concept of trying to repeal or modify
this law has been around for many years. It is interesting to note
that former Juneau Mayor Jamie Parsons endorsed modifying this act.
Current Fairbanks Mayor Jim Sampson and former commissioner of the
Department of Labor, endorsed modifying it at one time.
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY read from a 1987 letter in the committee
member's folders from Virgil A. Cain, Supervisor, Mine Safety and
Health, U.S. Department of Labor, Rocky Mountain Region:
"This letter deals with the working hours of the employees.
About five year ago, one large mine in my area changed from
the eight hours a day, five days a week with two days off to
a four day a week, ten hours a day. On the eight hours a day,
five days a week, the company had quite a few lost time
accidents. After the change to ten hour shifts, four days a
week, this company went five months without any accidents and
compiled one of the best mining accident records for its size
of any mine I have ever had any dealings with.
"Just recently this same mine under new management went back
to a eight hour day, five days a week and the lost time
accidents increased five to six hundred percent."
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY noted there is also a report from the
Department of the Interior, Bureau of Mines, "Underground Work Days
in an Underground Mine - A Workplace Performance Analysis." He
explained the report reiterates that there are a lot of advantages
to a longer work day. Representative Vezey said we have to look at
those states that do have a viable mining industry. Alaska mining
industry has doubled in the last ten years. There is no practical
limit on how big it can get. We have the geology and the area. It
is a question of the environment that we can create to attract a
caval. He reiterated that of the states that have a viable mining
industry, only two have any restrictions on the hours people can
work in underground mines and they restrict that by permit. It is
not a flat 8-hour restriction. Representative Vezey explained
there are only three states in the U.S. that have an 8-hour limit.
He noted two are Alaska and Montana.
Number 1823
CHAIRMAN KOTT referred to the states that have gone to something
other than an 8-hour day and asked if there is a trend as to what
they seem to be following on the average.
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY said the trend seems to be to repeal it or to
not have one at all. There are probably six or eight states that
have a permitting process where you have to apply for more than an
8-hour day. California has a maximum of 12 hours. The other
states have no maximum on that permit process.
Number 1898
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER noted that there isn't this 8-hour
restriction in Alaska for digging a tunnel but there is for mining
in the tunnel.
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY said that is correct. This only applies to
mining and has never been applied to tunnel. The Whittier Tunnel,
Bradley Lake Tunnel and the Snettisham Tunnel were all constructed
without the 8-hour restriction.
CHAIRMAN KOTT said it is the intent to hold the bill in committee
to allow all the parties that are interested in the measure to
develop their discourse.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked if there was a problem with the bill.
CHAIRMAN KOTT said there is not a problem, but there are some
entities that are trying to work behind the scenes to try to
finalize the numbers. He said he would assume that at some point
there is a break point where it does become hazardous. He said he
could envision working three 16-hour days, eight hours overtime,
could be a tough haul after the second day.
CHAIRMAN KOTT asked Representative Porter if police departments
allow 16-hour days. REPRESENTATIVE PORTER answered they do.
Number 1982
REPRESENTATIVE GENE KUBINA asked if overtime laws would come into
effect after eight hours.
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER said a 10-hour shift is an acceptable
alternative to the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) retirements for
overtime after eight hours if your working 40 hours a week.
REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS said he envisions there would be a lot of
variation from mine to mine. He said he would rather endorse
applying for an exception by certain mines. If the regulation is
just eliminated, there might be some danger in some of the mines.
CHAIRMAN KOTT said the committee would take public testimony at
another meeting on the issue.
CHAIRMAN KOTT stated there has been request to hold HB 319 over
until the following week.
ADJOURNMENT
Number 2134
CHAIRMAN KOTT adjourned the House Labor and Commerce meeting at
3:55 p.m.
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